Board Games on kickstarter (Jan 22)

Here is another neat game on KS – it’s a mix of regular cards with fantasy element like class-specific actions and it comes with awesome card previews:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2132550955/battle-of-durak-battle-card-game?ref=hero_thanks

Wow – look at all the Study in Kickstarter discussion. One might have thought a clever person would have found it a topic ripe for an open forum discourse…

I’ll throw in my two ducats.

I can’t speak for Queen. I think the only one we have backed collectively was Lost Legends. It wasn’t an explosive campaign. I might have been delayed. We got it. Happy times. I can’t say I would be one to stomp my feet if a game hit retail before I got my Kick Box. (I was one to gloat when Sentinel Tactics hit my doorstep while people were driving to GenCon to pick theirs up though.) At least there’s proof I will be getting something. 😉 Shadows of Brimstone was hitting retail and GenCon months before I received mine. I was filled with anticipation, but not scorn. A) I knew I was eventually getting way more in my deal. B)Game company has to sell games to stay in business. I have a sneaking suspicion that Queen isn’t being shady but a company that has been around the block. They know exactly what is going in their retail version of the Kickstarter campaign. That goes to the printer first and gets printed in substantially larger amounts. Those ziplocked Kickstarter extras thrown on top in a ziplock baggie. Smaller print run and most likely scheduled after the box that is going to make them money. All those games arrive and those ziplocks are still a month or two behind. It costs way more to have product sitting around in a warehouse than having a couple of chaps asking for a refund.

Delays are part of the game. Kickstarter runs on Kicktime. Eventually something comes and all is forgiven. 3-6 months is nothing. Look at Fallen – a year! Hats off to that guy. He was always open in communication and working hard. People didn’t lose faith and I wish him well and success. I didn’t even back that one personally. Part of the problem was Kickstarter itself.

Stretch goals are fun and neat and we all want more, more, more – but they are also one of the main reasons for delays. The campaign gets bloated with extra goodies to be made and that increases things exponentially. More art on the art schedule. Playtesting of excited promises. More things to get proofed. More cards through the feeder. The flip side of the coin of More Stuff=More Value is More Stuff=More Delays. The main reason Fallen went into lag is the funding went 6 times the goal. It became not a game, but a game exponential. And much playtesting the new wasn’t even in the equation – it was just art and writing a few extra dozen ‘choose your own adventures’.

I’m no Mathlete – but I’d love to correlate Overfunding Amounts vs Campaign Stretch vs Delay Time. Beautiful Mind II:Electric Boogaloo.

Epic PvP is an excellent case study. Sure it’s fun to imagine slews of crazy races and classes that want to be seen. IT’s fun to be an excited backer and imagine the potential of and how great ‘your’ investment will be. But in reality – I’m expecting a neat game with a couple of goodies. The end result of a smart campaign. Fun to 11 and AEG have good heads on their shoulders obviously. As a backer it is cheap talk to discuss a million-billion cards – as a designer not so much. Prepare for overworking the design, art, and playtesting department, then complaints as soon as you are two weeks past schedule, and then complaints of unbalance as soon it hits the table. Sure Cool Mini can just yell downstairs to the art department and slap up a caricature of some Big Banger in an hour, but few can. A smart designer enters a campaign with a few cards up the sleeve you can’t see, a few back pocket ideas ready to go and one or two just in case hail marys. Stonemaier usually enhances the product with fancies. Tiny Epics grow card by card. The biggest freshmen mistake is to get drawn into the Cult of the Backer and lose Design Mind – too many promises and you are literally overstretching yourself.

As for burns – I, myself, don’t feel that way yet. I have a few toes crossed on a handful of limbos – but haven’t given up hope yet. I think The Boy may have chalked up a few burns from early days. We have collectively gathered a small percentage of physical not-games (read: not much of a game), but you roll the dice and take your chances. We did get one ‘game’ in early Kicks that looked like it was constructed after hours in the back room of Staples. Unfortunately, for that person, he was in our area. Unfortunately, for that person he talked a little too much about his personal life. Unfortunately, for that person, we used the power of Facebook to track down someone who knew him second hand. Unfortunately, for that person, The Boy put on his coat one night and disappeared for a few hours. Fortunately, for us, the next day we had a game that was constructed after hours in the back room of Staples and a refund in The Boy’s Paypal account. I didn’t ask questions.

I am still am rather hopeful and forgiving when it comes to Kickstarter when it comes to first timers and even road dogs that hit a few bumps. I’ll nod at updates that describe delays. I’ll accept play test issues. Manufacture quality control problems. I’ll even take ‘we bit off way more than we can chew – sorry – but we are working on it’ at face value. I’ll even take a month or two of radio silence as par for the course. I’ll accept baby births. Moving. Real job. What I truly have grown weary of is ‘Sorry guys – get this – I was sick for like Two Months! Crazy, huh?!?!’ This is design and business – not a sixth grade book report. If that’s as creative as your excuse can get – I tend to get worried about the imagineering at the game design level. Apparently the game design gene makes you prevalent to this mysterious illness. After the third time The Boy and I heard that excuse – we began tracking it in the Notes section of the check list. I believe in Con Crud – I’ve had it. But Kickstarter Crud? I think about 20 or so campaigns have gotten hit by it. Someone should design a Pandemic spoof game around it (just give me a second to copyright that…and done)…but I know the end result of that or at least Update #23.

Kickstarter backers are investors and investment has risk. You might hit it big, you might get less than you expected, and you might get nothing at all. Some might be trying to just make a buck. Most I think re trying to make a game. If they make both – more power to them.

I like to think that on the tabletop end of things – both backers and designers, well, we’re gamers. We all know the importance of the ‘game’ – and in the end – for good or bad it will most likely get made. I watch campaigns carefully. I want a designer as excited about their product as I am after scanning their ‘pitch’, but I tread carefully in the realms of the overzealous and overpromising.

As for the little guy vs the big guy – well – welcome to the free market. Sure – a few I think – have overstayed their welcome -but at the end of the day – I check Kickstarter for something cool or fun or getting in on the next big thing. I’m looking for an interesting game is the bottom line. Well – a game and a few ‘free’ goodies along the way doesn’t hurt. If the game is interesting – it doesn’t really matter who is behind it. I applaud the little guy, find it nice to see a familiar design face, and well – if it is here-we-go-again-and-again at least it is a familiar dance and I know what to expect.

Although I do tip a tiny top hat to someone like Greater Than who got their start, made their products, built their mailing list, and now say:we’re a company. Let’s see what it is like to fly away from the nest (And the funding percentage cuts by the Kick and Amazon nibbles, of course)

Whew – I’m glad Kickstarter ver. 798.3434 (since they face lift every week it seems – must be that 5% cut on Cool Mini Million games ) has fixed the links again, but the spacing…the spacing.

After letting the other form of gaming plastic cool for the holidays The Kick is back with some goodies:

I’m backing
Tiny Epic Galaxies because the Tiny Epics always turn a good value
Nova Scotia Cry or whatever it is
Grimtooth Traps for the laughs and the in memorium salute

Unspeakable Words For The Nieces – but I have the original and never had a real problem with it. It has gathered dust and isn’t super duper, but it does what it does. I have a feeling the two dungeon/fantasy word games I have backed will surpass it when (if) they come.

Dice Tower Season 11 Their Top Tens have been keeping me company as I build my Shadows of Brimstone minis. They provide a decent service to the gaming community and hey – some promos I could use. The rest – well – turned over to The Boy for ebay to recoup some of that ‘helper’ love.

Epic PvP: because that looks like too much fun. Fun to 11 by no question delivers. And it is too much Smash Up style itch scratchiness to say no to.

I won’t say Conan. Conan. CONAN bc I know His Majesty was backing it second one. I took a look at it to see what I was getting into. I don’t know. I like Dungeon Crawlers. (I have to. I’ve been Stockholm Syndrome’d into appreciating dalliances along torch lit corridors.) But the DC requires a bit of zazz and epicness. Conan is def ep, but all those euro colors and iconography. I keep seeing Race for the Galaxy in a loincloth. I like RftG enough but the Big C seems like it might take a too simple or too abstract turn of play.

The Boy is also backing RFoD Big Box for consistency and Exodus for the expansion and version one upgrade.

I see Forged in Steel has lost Breasty McBreasterson as their cheerleader…

I’m watching Rise of Cthulhu and I really want to toss in on Space Cadets:Away Missions because a station crawl sounds fun. (Love the Battlestations!) Stronghold is a good company. But with ol Team Coco cromming it up all over the place round here it might not happen.

I’ll probably back Exploding Kittens to be a Funding Sheep and I would back Cones of Dunshire if it came with an Adam Scott luncheon (sexy) and I didn’t think Mayfair was being strangely jerky.

@Bit and Bot Massacre

Yeah, deadbeats are a completely different story. I feel bad for people who ended up having a deadbeat as their only experience on Kickstarter. I’m sure that would sour me to the experience as well. I’ve had only a few…Dice Age (recently just gave up in an update…very disappointing) and Odin’s Ravens (the guy was just a con artist) are the only complete crash and burns out of over a 100 projects. There are a few independent people who are dragging, but I still have hope.

Hope is good. 🙂

I wanted to throw in my two cents about game delivery delays, as I have been looking into how the system works for my own game designs. I’m considering a KS campaign, so I’ve talked with both Jamey Stegmaier from Stonemaier Games and Michael Mendes from TMG…two of the best in my opinion.

In the traditional cycle of game development (or the development of any product), the consumer doesn’t experience all of the delays, because the product is sent to distributors and then companies only start advertising when available. Online retailers might provide an estimate, but sane people don’t get angry if a game doesn’t make the CoolStuff suggested Q3 timeframe. They get disappointed, but not angry.

With Kickstarter, you get to witness all the headaches of production, distribution and fulfillment firsthand. Even if the company has all the designs ready to go, they still have to work with the manufacturer to make sure inserts are actually working with the materials chosen, colors are correct, etc. They will then get a prototype to check and make sure it is all working. If there is a mistake in packaging or components…they may need to fix it on their end, or request the changes and a new prototype. Sometimes, a manufacturer is working with another company to make miniatures…so the printer is also communicating with this other company to fix things…and if another company is involved because there is a timer…oh boy…you get the picture. Not only are you communicating with the point person, but there could be multiple points of contact below that person. This is why you sometimes end up with colors that don’t match, missing components, or something is a lower quality compared to everything else.

That’s the development part of the Production Process. Once everything is looking good, they start producing the game. Oops, wait! You have to fit into their schedule, which may have changed while you nit-picked the quality of every aspect of your game. (I’d like to stop and note that the same people who don’t want delays might also not want a game with poor quality components…moving on). Then of course, there’s Chinese New Year, etc, because the game is being made in China. But, now that’s over, and your games get made. Boom! Production! Easy-peasy.

Now, we move on to Distribution. No problem. All you need to do is hire the right company. That company picks up the games at the manufacturer and sends them to the docks, where they get into the schedule to be loaded onto a ship for the correct destination port. There’s a schedule for that…as EVERYTHING gets made in China. Once the container carrying your games finally gets on a ship, it heads out to sea…for weeks! No storms…we are OK. Then, you get to port…and CUSTOMS takes over. Queue the elevator music…we might be here for days or weeks. Who knows? Let’s just hope the dock workers aren’t on strike. Oh, noooooo!

So, the games make it through Customs, and eventually make it onto a truck that carries the games to the Distributor. Ahhhhh…done. No? We aren’t done yet? Why? We have to fulfill the orders to all of our backers? Oh, right.

Fulfillment can be tricky too. First, most distributors have some version of fulfillment. However, you may be using the Distributor as a facilitator to get your games to another Fullfillment center like Amazon, who will then package each game individually and send them to each person who is “patiently” waiting. Ahem. But wait! You had stretch goals. Yikes! Now, the games are sitting at the Fullfillment wherehouse waiting for those start player tokens to arrive from China too. You want to send out the games, but the cost to deliver twice would make your tiny profit margins shrink to nothing. So, you wait. Eventually, those stupid tokens arrive (why did I have to have stretch goals?), and you are able to finally hit “send.”

The games are now in the capable hands of UPS… Or whatever mail delivery system used in your part of the World.

The point I’m trying to make is that much of the non-design process is completely out of the hands of many companies. Some of the larger companies, like FFG, have distribution themselves. That’s why Asmodee purchased them. It’s a HUGE pain in the behind.

I don’t blame anyone for being disappointed in delays, and companies should be better about communication. However, constant posts about delays can appear to be excuses to some people, so it becomes a lose-lose situation. In the end, the best remedy for delays is a fantastic end product. Oh crud, we forgot to edit the rule book.

The end.

I also backed 2 Queen campaigns back to back. I received both games 3 months late, I know its not the end of the world, but c’mon its Queen Games. This isn’t their first rodeo but most of the difficulties that other fledgling companies have to overcome to get their games to their backers Queen games has already dealt with a few dozen times. They have production, export, and customers relations experience. This should be a non issue and definitely not repeated, as they continuously do.

I think the real slap in the face of Queen games kickstarter backers is when the game gets released commercially (and at a lower cost) before they supply games to their backers ie: Dark, Darker, Darkest. I would be more forgiving if this was an anomolay, but sadly this is not the case. Then to add insult to injury, Queen Games contacts their backers to advise them that they have improved their kickstarter customer relations and service delivery and then don’t.

@RevBob – thanks for the clarification. While I like Queen Games and eagerly back their Kickstarters, I agree they should be held to a higher standard than first-timers or small publishing houses. I just like all the “Queenies” I get from backing a Queen KS, as well as the occasional free game that’s actually good (Maharani is an example of this, given for free for backing Thebes). And I’m always fine with 3 months late. I don’t get upset when the little guys are 7 months late.

But I also agree with @Bit – I’m OK with big companies running pre-orders through KS… I just hope it doesn’t take from the little guys. My backer history is filled with CMoNs and Queens, but has just as many first-timers and passion projects.

Good gravy, what the heck is up with Exploding Kittens? $3.4 million in less than three days, 87K backers for a card game about blowing up kittens? And nearly no stretch goals to speak of either. I find really interesting that this has blown up in such a huge way. I mean, I have Kittens in a Blender, so annihilating meowing furballs on cards is nothing I am a stranger to, but, wow.

I am starting to get excited about Conan. Thanks to Granny, I have stories to read this weekend too. There was quite the black hole in my fantasy knowledge. I thought Arnold Schwarzenegger was all there was to Conan. What a shame that was.

I’m backing Exploding Kittens…because there are kittens…and they explode. Did I mention I’m a dog person? 🙂

I’m also considering Tiny Epic Galaxies and Deluxe Orleans but haven’t committed yet. Examining budget to see if we can fit them in.

I love the look of Epic PvP: Fantasy, but will probably pick it up after the KS, if possible. The same goes for Island Dice.

I agree with Granny on Unspeakable Words. I enjoy the premise but my copy hasn’t seen play in quite a long time and that likely won’t change. It’s simple and can be a fun family/party game, but it’s not something I’d recommend to most avid gamers.

I understand why some people have objections to the KS practices of Queen Games (most notably the lack of communication), but in my opinion the final result is more important than the slow/lacking communication issues. They promise games of good quality and they deliver. Maybe with a few delays, but that is very common for KS, as mentioned previously. Their actions speak louder than their (unspoken) words from my viewpoint.

I couldn´t stand.. i am now a backer for Conan, as they even have EU deliverie organized with a very reasonable cost for Spain.
My firts backing on KS! I can wait to see how it feels to receive that big lot of stuff, as this game is GORGEOUS